What Exactly Happened in Copenhagen? – China News
www.thechinabeat.org — After a break 'The China Beat' are back with this thoughtful appraisal of the recent Copenhagen debate: 'Commentary and coverage of China’s role at Copenhagen has been widespread in the past few weeks...Here, China Beat contributor Yu Zhou critiques the reading of China’s role as it has developed in the Western press'.
Read it. It's basically an article attacking the Guardian's Lynas account of events by using discrepancies with Xinhua's version as a benchmark.
A very pro-Beijing appraisal.
Yes it is and Lynas' article was an anti-Beijing appraisal. If we want to go down the route of Heros to the left and Devils to the right, we can just pin the Lynas article on our walls and praise the ambition and selflessness of Lynas and those in his room! If we want to see that just maybe there is more than just a singular-perspective here, we can try and establish a slightly more nuanced appraisal and see how it all shakes down a little further along the line. Yu Zhou to some extent has attempted to do that.
At the end of the day, Lynas interpreted events from his perspective, he did not even for a moment attempt to understand the Chinese perspective. Now, I am certainly not singing the Xinhua tune but nor am I allowing myself to see Brown (as I am British) and Obama as tragic heroes here.
I do believe the Chinese are now in the mix and many people and governments are not quite sure how to deal with them.
Actually, my 'well said' was intended for this post. My relative unfamiliarity with the site led to my failure to place it where I wanted it. Stuart has a monumental 'hard on' for the CCP and is notorious for his strident attitude. His agenda? Ask him.
I would like to add, however, I've yet to see a post from him that is favorable towards China.
Is there something wrong with being anti-Beijing as long as "Beijing" means "CCP"? And CCP = one party dictatorship?
Well said, NotesfromXian.
"...establish a slightly more nuanced appraisal "
Xinhua don't do nuance.
"I do believe the Chinese are now in the mix and many people and governments are not quite sure how to deal with them."
Evidently. And I doubt Mr Lynas would disagree.
"Well said."
Thank you.
You're a 'hoot,' Stuart...
You have taken my words about a "nuanced appraisal" and applied them as if I was referring to the Xinhua perspective as nuanced, which I obviously was not.
There have been a number of commentators recently, across the media spectrum, who have acknowledged that their world perspective is in need of adaptation. It seems to me that that is not an easy thing to address, so sometimes it is important to remind ourselves of the most basic, seemingly self evident facts.
The fact is that China now has a major role in the domain of global governance and that it is new and not well understood. At which point, we need to be attentive to all the perspectives within this particular discourse, so we can find a peaceful and hopefully valuable way of moving forward.
I don't believe misinterpreting or blithely dismissing a person's words has ever helped that process.
"At which point, we need to be attentive to all the perspectives within this particular discourse, so we can find a peaceful and hopefully valuable way of moving forward."
I agree entirely, which is why we're all fucked if the CCP don't grow up to accept dissenting opinion and promote open discourse in their own backyard.
"You're a 'hoot,' Stuart..."
Is that with or without a monumental hard on?
"I would like to add, however, I've yet to see a post from him that is favorable towards China."
Au contraire; they're all 'favorable towards China', because they take issue with a regime that has systematically ripped the heart and soul out of the Chinese people.
Now the CCP seem bent on bringing their own brand of arrogance to a planet crying out for moral leadership. Unless CCP philosophy undergoes radical surgery to remove its malignance, the next century will be one of unparalleled human suffering.
"I agree entirely, which is why we're all fucked if the CCP don't grow up to accept dissenting opinion and promote open discourse in their own backyard."
Now, without wanting to generalize I still will anyway. To all those chaps out their with Chinese girlfriends or wives, how many can look at those words ("not accept dissenting opinion" - "grow up...and promote open discourse" ) and can say that they haven't on one occasion or many felt like they are banging their heads against a brick wall because the expression of those words are embodied in their dearly beloved.
I know, from my small circle of friends here in parochial Xi'an, that we cannot. My point? Maybe Great Mother China is just the same as those wonderful women by our sides, but what we all know is; getting frustrated, angry, being overly rational, having expectations and imposing our own ways of doing things, attempting to dictate terms, directly disagreeing and certainly expressing the opinion that this is how we would do it or see it at home/ in the West/ in the States/ in Europe etc never quite leads to a solution!
On that note, with regard your second point, the amazing thing is, from my experience of three years here, I don't find a people who have had their hearts and souls ripped out.
So, one, we can only deal with what we are faced with, not what we think we should be faced with, and two, it is not all bad. Another self evident truth maybe, but one that we need to regularly remind ourselves of, if we want to move things forward. Dealing with China, might be like dealing with our girlfriends and wives, bloody difficult sometimes but well worth it.
Patience is most certainly a virtue, while understanding and respect for others ( with all their shapes and sizes, attitudes and beliefs) are the most valuable gifts to have or share. If you want to promote those qualities, it is best you embody them yourself- I speak generally of course, not to you directly Stuart.
The main point, it is easy to throw the words around you do, it is much harder to stay positive and maintain respect, to listen, really listen, especially when you are not shown those same things in return.
We can all jump around with our placards of criticism but it doesn't often get us very far.
"...having expectations and our own ways of doing things, attempting to dictate terms, directly disagreeing and certainly expressing the opinion that this is how we would do it or see it at home/ in the West..."
None of that bears any resemblance to your humble correspondent. Or was it self-criticism? If not ...
My mailing list of friends (mostly ex-students) made in China is long enough to compile a phone directory. I didn't earn their respect and friendship by lecturing, proselytizing, or in any other way disrespecting their country as you seem to be inferring.
It's the CCP I have issues with:
"...understanding and respect for others ( with all their shapes and sizes, attitudes and beliefs) are the most valuable gifts to have or share"
Respect for ALL their attitudes and beliefs?
Unfortunately, many of the CCP's attitudes and beliefs are devoid of virtue, let alone morality, and simply cannot be respected.
And please spare me any fenqing-style logical fallacies: I'm well aware of the shortcomings of other governments, but this is not about them.
On a side note I have to say that you and wdbox have certainly shaken things up here with your excellent contributions. And if that starts debate, it's virtuous indeed.
Well, you've got me there Stuart, self-criticism indeed- was that not the point. However, you did catch me at my late-night proselytizing best and so I will defer to your style of commentary. I've always enjoyed a few logical fallacies and also be prone to the odd dose of sarcasm myself, so virtue and humility will have to wait for another day.
I, personally though, would still rather be reading both Lynas' and Yu Zhou's articles together, not just one or the other.
"I, personally though, would still rather be reading both Lynas' and Yu Zhou's articles together, not just one or the other."
Me too; otherwise we don't get to enjoy praising one and lambasting the other ;)
Word. Lest people are starting to feel that it might be better if what happens in Copenhagen stays in Copenhagen, I'm planning on writing a 129 verse folk song using the comments on this post as lyrics. I'm hoping we can get backup vocals from the Hao Hao chorus.
I'm back in China tomorrow and bringing my guitar this time -- let me know if I can lend some tracks to this most fantastic endeavor ;-)
In all seriousness -- great comments all around. I love that no one has really fallen into that so-common trap of irrational attacks. You guys all have very valid points, and it's been a pleasure reading 'em.
Fair play to Fredster. Happy Days Stuart, Happy Days.
Lynas' account of his personal experience in the room rang very true to me because I've been in many similar negotiations with Chinese officials. When reading anything from or by Xinhua you have to keep in mind that you are reading the official Chinese Communist Party line because that is who runs Xinhua. It would be like getting all your news from Democratic or Republican (Labour etc) Party press releases - or maybe Fox News. If I see a byline from Xinhua I don't even bother reading it unless I'm specifically trying to find out what the CCP line is. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time. But it is kind of entertaining at times.
That is most certainly true...
...over to Ryan on Guitar and Fredster, who is leading the Choir.