On Copenhagen, culture, and China’s familiar negotiation tactic – General
www.pandapassport.com — I think any person who's tired of hearing, "Your actions/inactions/words/etc have hurt the feelings of the Chinese people" would love to hear what the writer suggests Obama says to Wen.
The delay tactic is notorious, and the government agencies (or businesses) never respond to any complaints/feedback unless they are cornered...But I guess the same goes for a lot of countries
I don't know enough about the situation, the summit or the players involved to comment knowledgeably but the bit about China ruining the summit and how we shouldn't blame Obama strikes me as slightly rich given that the US never ratified Kyoto on a national level and is still the number one carbon emitter per person. I'm not suggesting giving any kind of pass to China or anyone else who wanted to hold up what seems like a rather useless set of standards to begin with but I think this view of the summit is awfully convenient. I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that if people had listened to Ralph Nader 30+ years ago the US would have a much stronger position today.
Fredster,
Gotta agree with you.
China didn't create this freakin' mess. Playing the 'blame game' doesn't get us any closer to cleaning up this polluted planet that each of us has a hand in.
The article quoted about China 'ruining the summit' is only one source, and one that is not particularly creditable in that it does not adhere to high journalistic standards (few do, these days)and is self-serving.
Due diligence.
Further, if you want to spend 'green' dollars, they are better spent in China and the developing nations than in America or on the Continent, because the dollars go farther. You get more bang for the buck.
America and Europe have got to get their shit together and realize that in the future, they will not be calling the shots.
I thought the report in the Guardian was quite credible as it was written by a person who was actually IN THE ROOM. His account seemed objective as well - he was an adviser to a developing country's head of state as well. Other reports from people who were actually there back up the story. See The Australian, The Times, etc. China has been public about not wanting enforcable commitments on pollution so is it really such a surprise that their behavior would be designed to achieve nothing more than vague promises?
On the other hand, the US has a new administration that is intent on reversing the Bush Administrations climate control policies so it should be no surprise that Obama tried hard to move the talks forward. Unfortunately, the efforts of Europe, the US, Australia were thwarted by China and its client states.
The world had better hope that the West and its allies do continue to call the shots because China has shown nothing but irresponsibility on the world stage thus far.
jaycasey,
Let's just say the story fits nicely within the parameters you have assigned to China and facts are not necessarily part of the equation as long as they express your point of view.
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per capita emissions means little if China's 1.3 billion are included in anything. We will choke on China's pollution equally well as they are now the number one polluters in the world, are increasing emissions rapidly.
I think you have not consulted an emissions per capita chart lately.. If you had, you wouldn't use it as an argument against China.
The U.S. is still ahead by a staggering 4 to 1 count.
As far as overall omissions leader is concerned, the U.S. is number two and not very far behind China.
Another lame, but convenient contention on your part.
jaycasey,
You continually, and conveniently, omit the U.S. contribution to this problem. If America had not been the NO. 1 polluter in the history of the civilized world for the past _ _ years, there would be no emissions problem. We've been living in the penthouse for decades.
Change of administrations has nothing to do with anything. It's business as usual.
Take China COMPLETELY OUT of the equation. What do we have? We've still got a major emissions problem.
Time to suck it up and bite the bullet.
The U.S. and EU bludgeon CHINA (and the rest of the developing world) because it will be cheaper for China to clean up than for the West - dollar for dollar - and, have less of an impact on the individual western consumer, who does not want to give up any of his lifestyle (attained at the expense of third world nations). Hell, I won't even bother at this point to throw in the obvious; who did China produce all the exports for? Can you spell gluttonous.
Do you really want accountability? Do you really want everyone to pay their fair share? Higher taxes anyone?
Start with America.
I'm not going to argue over whose pollution is the most deadly because it's like arguing over which bullet killed a murder victim. My point is that China is now the number one emitter of CO2 in the world and we can't solve the problem without them. Unfortunately China is taking the position that since the West polluted for decades now they should be allowed to for an equal number of decades = ignoring the fact that the world is just figuring out the deadly cost. The world is not going to put up with that.
On top of insisting on being exempt from negotiated emission limits China has the audacity to tell the world to "trust us" - we will police ourselves. Anyone that's lived in China knows how absurd that is!
Lots of Western companies have, and are, moving production to China to escape costly po;;ution controls in the West. This does no one any favors but only China could stop it by enforcing their own laws. But they aren't. It does boil down to greed on the part of China, Chinese companies and Western companies.
One of the best solutions on the micro level is one I have adopted - not buying Western goods made in China.
Jay Casey, Thanks for reiterating your very obvious, yet oft-denied, immense hatred for China.
I'm still too wrapped up in holiday cheer to chime in with more than saying interesting comments from both sides.